very bad & cruel..

By: Prateek Kashyap | 04 Mar 2010 5:54 pm

let me take the opposite view.Reason for doing this is various pros and cons can come out.Personally I do not dock tails,crop years or remove dew claws .But let me put forth the arguments.
1.Ear infections r very common in drooping ears ,more so in hairy breeds.This happens due to lack of air ventilation.Now in nature there are no mammals without erect ears.In other words it is man made fault.With surgery vets r only correcting it.This is very similar to milktooth extraction if it does not fall on its own and gives problem to dog at later stage.Can surgery be called cruel?

By: PRADEEP KOUSHIK | 04 Mar 2010 6:56 pm

its cosmetic surgery basically. if this is the case then declaws are also said by few to be bad, why are they not removed. anything which is done against the nature is bad as per me.

By: Anil @ DoggiesDude | 04 Mar 2010 8:43 pm

though it is a man made fault but it was not done through surgery..further there is no substantial evidence that it always helps.sometimes the ears may not become erect,and the area which is cut may continue to irritate even after long time.

By: Shalin | 08 Mar 2010 9:40 pm

Argument is like always surgery is for attempting to correct a problem.There is no surgery without discomfort or with guarantees,r there?

By: PRADEEP KOUSHIK | 08 Mar 2010 10:41 pm

but this is not a problem.a problem is something which physically or mentally disturbs a being to such an extent that there is no way but surgery....surgery is the last resort in every case.....dont you think so?

By: Shalin | 08 Mar 2010 10:58 pm

We say an ear infection is a major problem in the offing.Sinus problem is not life threatening,nor is anything dentist does to us.Pain in ear infection is simply unbearable.Should we not avoid that?Afterall notwithstanding what scalpel jumping surgeon told us one out of every 3 appendix surgeries could be avoided or atleast postponed.Same is true for cesarean,human or dog.U do not wait till problem hits u.We act proactively is what they will tell u.There is not one hairy drooping ear dog who did not face ear infection sometime or other.The ear infections with erect ears is for too less is also a fact.In that case if a vet dicides to crop ears,it has to be viewed like any other surgery .

By: PRADEEP KOUSHIK | 09 Mar 2010 1:07 am

Firstly -lets not compare humans and dog, I would like homo-sapience the place where they are and dogs the place they should be. There is no proven facts around cropping and infection.
Lets take this analogy -
If infection going to happen its going to happen, there is nothing like proactive measures in this case where you crop ear. Lets not crop the ear since any living being goes through pain and for cosmetic reasons.
Tomorrow if breed suffers from ulcers, it would horror what actions we would take being so proactive.
I am giving my opinion since you asked in public forum nothing beyond.

By: Hemanshu | 16 Apr 2010 12:29 pm

hi,
I appreciate all views and they make others also think one way or other.Had I not started the thread in support of cropping,everybody will only say ya, cropping is painful and should not do,and the positives even in act like cropping would not hv come out.But just try figuring out why on earth ear cropping started and became popular.There must be reasons for that,which may or may not be relevent today's lifestyle.

By: PRADEEP KOUSHIK | 17 Apr 2010 5:41 pm

if cropping was healthy why are not all breeds cropped??

By: Anil @ DoggiesDude | 18 Apr 2010 8:45 am

well, I would say in some cases like scent hounds long years actually helped in funnelling the ground scents.GSD and many similar breeds anyway retained their erect ears.And that way,everybody does not follow things just because they r good.We know smoking is bad.We know exercise is good for health.Do we all follow that?Also it would be interesting to collect data,in which countries cropping is/was more popular.I guess
more breeds from a certain countries or areas did that for their breeds.Other areas the practice was not known probably,and that could not be shared then .(No common language,no flights,tv or internet or even photography).And like our gods and customs everybody practicing some customs did not know the real reasons for performing certain acts.Even today just see how cattle is bought and sold based on teeth,the lay
of fur ,markings etc.The real genetics they do not know.They only say it is not auspicious.Point is ,at the back of these seemingly unscientific acts,there were logical reasons to stert with.Whether they r relevent today or not can be known only if we figure out what were they?

By: PRADEEP KOUSHIK | 18 Apr 2010 12:27 pm

agreed on the point of smoking. but is smoking permitted to any particular regilion or caste? docking , cropping are done on specific breeds. So one cannot comapre this. i will not call this elective surgical procedure.Spaying,removing tumors etc are good but cosmetic surgery a big NO. It certainly does not help in regards to health. its done PURELY for show purpose.they are carried out solely to alter a dog's physical appearance.Ear infections is not a reason to crop ears, as you can clean the dog's ears regularly and never have a problem Ear infections is not a reason to crop ears, as you can clean the dog's ears regularly and never have a problem.

By: Anil @ DoggiesDude | 18 Apr 2010 10:32 pm

yes i agree with you anil, its only done for the showbiz.cropping is a cosmetic surgery and NOT a medical surgery.i honestly think it should be banned in india also and with it tail docking.

By: Shalin | 19 Apr 2010 12:52 am

After a long wait ,I am dismayed with the hypocracy of we dog lovers.I did not get a single response supporting the surgery.Yet in any dog shows,or most dob or rott pet dogs are docked in India.Sure there r a few breeders who hv stopped doing cropping/docking.But the new owners want and get it done.None of my puppies are cropped or docked,yet that is no positive for the puppy buyer.They just accomodate me for that.
So either there is major disconnect between the forum and the real dog owners out there or we r hypocrats enough to write one thing and do opposite with our little lions.

By: PRADEEP KOUSHIK | 06 Jan 2011 2:23 pm

@Pradeep. I am confused as what response you were expecting? People have voiced their views above. Partially the fault lies that many do not follow the exact breed standard or update themself about any changes in the same.You cannot judge everyone just on the basis of few people who follow some outdated/cruel way.

By: Anil @ DoggiesDude | 06 Jan 2011 2:59 pm

well ,I expected atleast a few siding with cropping and be honest,because in real life majority of dogs r cropped/docked/neutered/altere d if the breed has the slightest possibility of doing that.Other possibility is those who write here do not represent the majority view.It is very convenient for a lab owner to say against docking/cropping,but how many DOB owners can boast their(DOB's) tail?Sorry to jump from cropping to docking,but I think issue is more or less the same,except that cropping is far too expensive and long drawn,
and end result (cosmatic) is not certain.This fact alone saves most danes from cropping,and no other reason.
Vets in India r not supposed to undertake cropping for cosmatic reasons alone.And guess what is the reasoning they hv for cropping?90% of croppings r done by vets,and believe me one needs to make an appointment weeks in advance with famous ear croppers as they r too busy cropping.You call these "a few people who follow outdated/cruel way"?They r majority man,but r not talking on this forum.I dare all those "croppers/dockers" to either come onboard and justify what they do or else stop cropping/docking.Say,dog looks smart,say a DOB is not DOB without docking,say something,but if u do not hv anything worth saying in favour of cropping,why the hell u do that?Hope this makes the purpose of this thread
clear.But it also terminates the purpose,in a way.

By: PRADEEP KOUSHIK | 07 Jan 2011 12:59 am

A VET WHO docked a litter of 13 Rottweilers is facing costs and fines totalling more than £40,000.
David Smith, who owns Lake View Veterinary Surgery in Union Road, Deal, Kent, a surgery in Crete Road West in Folkestone and a horse unit in Finglesham, Kent, was also found guilty of causing unnecessary suffering by docking the three-day-old puppies in March 2008.
At the conclusion of his trial at Dover Magistrates Court last week he was ordered to pay £39,000 in costs, and pay penalties of £2,000 for the docking and £1,300 for causing unnecessary suffering.
Smith, of Lower Farm, Finglesham, denied the charges.
In May 2009 the RSPCA, which brought the prosecution, heard about Star, a 13-month-old docked Rottweiler bitch who was living with her owner in Herne Bay; the procedure had been carried out after the 2006 Animal Welfare Act came into effect in 2007 changing the docking law. The only exception to the ban is for working dogs.
Smith’s legal representative, Anne-Marie Gregory, said her client had not known Rottweilers should not be docked, and that he had investigated whether it was permitted legally because he believed the puppies were to be used for security and law enforcement work.
“When he called DEFRA he was given conflicting answers,” she said.

‘Yelped’

It was reported at an earlier hearing that two of the puppies yelped when they were docked. The RSPCA’s expert witness Jeremy Stattersfield – another east Kent vet – made a statement which read: “Vocalising is indicative of pain. The absence of vocalisation does not mean there is no pain.”
Smith was also criticised for not certifying the docking properly.
After the trial, he told local reporters: “(Paying the fines and costs) won’t mean the business folds, but I can’t pay in the 28 days. This whole thing has cost me £60,000, and for doing what?”

By: Anil @ DoggiesDude | 08 Jan 2011 12:50 am

Now it is banned...so no discussions..Times Of India (Delhi edition)>>21/09/2011...Page 1,6

By: Nikhil Palli | 21 Sep 2011 10:00 am